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 Post subject: Wasted Food
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:50 pm 
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http://brekend.nl/2014/07/18/dit-zouden ... eten-doen/

The film is in English.

More EU madness, we're going to be forced to eat ugly produce. It's a disgrace the EU trying to fob their disgusting misshapen fruit and vegetables off on the British. No doubt the British tax payer is paying for it all as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Well, there is little doubt we waste a butt ton of food. How to reduce that ? I don't know.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:39 pm 
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The people who go onto Jeremy Kyle show {and most of the rest of Britain} only understand perfect shaped & washed food in a plastic container from Tesco or McDonalds.

They dont know what meat from the butchers is nor vegetables from green grocers are, and they dont know how to prepare nor cook it. So they wont buy it let alone eat it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:42 pm 
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We are fortunate enough to have a huge selection of butchers and also decent traditional grocers around us who sell odd shaped local veg.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:57 pm 
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McFarmer wrote:
Well, there is little doubt we waste a butt ton of food. How to reduce that ? I don't know.


There was a programme (good, unusually enough) on the BBC last weekend about bagged salads: i.e. you get a bit of lettuce, a few bits of tomato, some bits of green or red pepper, perhaps some shredded cabbage, maybe a few radishes. Sounds like a good idea to me, because few of us want a whole large lettuce, or several whole peppers, or a whole cabbage, and so on. But the supermarkets ONLY market the stuff in bags about the right size for 4 people or more. It's very nicely packed in a nitrogen atmosphere, and keeps very well until the bag is opened - then it goes rotten in 48 hours, and the fact is that over 50% of bagged salads as sold by supermarkets get thrown away, and selling it pack half the size would drop that waste by a large fraction.

I know Lumpkin is playing silly buggers, but the EU bureaucrats have been responsible for huge amounts of waste: over 70% of North Sea fish caught has to be dumped at sea (dead) because it's illegal to land it. Drivelling bastards.

Likewise it is actually illegal for gardeners or farmers to exchange vegetable seed from varieties unapproved by the EU: drivelling nonsense again, because few if any garden (or market garden) varieties have the volume to afford EU testing.

And sell-by dates are also an EU rule (about to be rescinded in the UK whether the EU likes it or not) which has resulted in countless thousands of tons of perfectly good food being dumped. Cheesemakers being forced to dump tons of lovely cheese, because they can't afford the testing to prove to the Brussels Fat Cats that the cheese is fit to eat (indeed better) after a year's storage.

Now in France, and probably Lumpkin's bit of Belgium too, the powers-that-be simply fail to enforce these nonsensical laws, but they are laws nonetheless, and you can't sack our home-grown adipose feline morons for enforcing them, and it's very difficult to stop them marginally making the bloody laws worse after translation.

Whether Lumpkin, or President Obama, likes it or not, England is going to leave the EU unless there are major changes, and those major changes don't benefit the vastly overpaid army of Brussels bureaucrats, so I don't think they'll happen.

Brussels is also a major dumping ground for all major UK political parties for those of their leading lights who have been caught with their hands in the till. The most notable ones are the totally unelectable Kinnocks from the Labour Party, who have received over £15 million between them from Brussels, but there are other examples in every other party,


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Another huge cause of food waste is the pre-packed vegetables/fruit from the super markets. They only last 2 days before they go soft and start to rot and become mouldy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Those packaged salads, do they use produce that may not be attractive enough to make it to the shelves on their own merit ?

I know those "baby" carrots are sometimes regular carrots that are shaved down. Carrots that didn't make the grade, but when they run them through a baby maker, everyone thinks they are the greatest.

Baby maker, I just made that up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:21 pm 
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Here's an interesting one for you.

Nigel Farage was a member of the EU fisheries committee and attended only one out of 42 meetings where the non-landing catch policy could have been challenged. He chose to ignore it, preferring to concentrate on filling his boots with every benefit possible from his position as a Euro MP in order to fund UKIP. Hugh Fearnly-Whittingstall went out with trawlermen and was so disgusted at seeing it first hand that he raised a petition and an Europe-wide campaign and has got the policy changed over a year ago. I know for whom I have more respect.

I'm pretty sure England will leave the EU, and the rest of the member states won't shed many tears when they do. But I also believe that the country would be far better staying involved and pushing reform from within that sulking off into a corner because our Euro MPs are too busy grinding their own axes to do what you are paying them for. And contrary to popular belief, none of the member states are happy with the situation, they want reform as much as England does.

But I don't care, I live on the mainland now where we ratify only the directives we choose and can buy raw milk, unpasteurised and aged cheese from farmhouse suppliers, where most food doesn't have a sell by date, where dried and preserved meats are traded from small traditional manufacturers using age old methods and gardeners and restaurateurs swap old varieties of seeds and vegetables that aren't on any list. The idea that the testing of produce is killing small food producers off is bizarre. I am in the process of setting up a business selling dried pork sausage from weaner to plate. Sure we have had to have our products tested by the equivalent of DEFRA in Liege, but it cost 30 Euros for each type of sausage we produce. If a business can't afford that they have more problems than just a health check.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:57 pm 
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I have a good friend whom is now one of the largest strawberry growers in Scotland and possibly the UK.

To conform to what supermarkets want there are now no traditional varieties grown (jubilee etc) and none grown outside au naturalle.

The b and c class berried used to go for jam and processing but they have driven the price so low that jam makers are now buying a class berries and he has to dump tons and tons of perfectly good and usually better tasting odd shapes.

Its a nonsense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:20 am 
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RGSP wrote:
McFarmer wrote:
Well, there is little doubt we waste a butt ton of food. How to reduce that ? I don't know.


There was a programme (good, unusually enough) on the BBC last weekend about bagged salads: i.e. you get a bit of lettuce, a few bits of tomato, some bits of green or red pepper, perhaps some shredded cabbage, maybe a few radishes. Sounds like a good idea to me, because few of us want a whole large lettuce, or several whole peppers, or a whole cabbage, and so on. But the supermarkets ONLY market the stuff in bags about the right size for 4 people or more. It's very nicely packed in a nitrogen atmosphere, and keeps very well until the bag is opened - then it goes rotten in 48 hours, and the fact is that over 50% of bagged salads as sold by supermarkets get thrown away, and selling it pack half the size would drop that waste by a large fraction.

I know Lumpkin is playing silly buggers, but the EU bureaucrats have been responsible for huge amounts of waste: over 70% of North Sea fish caught has to be dumped at sea (dead) because it's illegal to land it. Drivelling bastards.

Likewise it is actually illegal for gardeners or farmers to exchange vegetable seed from varieties unapproved by the EU: drivelling nonsense again, because few if any garden (or market garden) varieties have the volume to afford EU testing.

And sell-by dates are also an EU rule (about to be rescinded in the UK whether the EU likes it or not) which has resulted in countless thousands of tons of perfectly good food being dumped. Cheesemakers being forced to dump tons of lovely cheese, because they can't afford the testing to prove to the Brussels Fat Cats that the cheese is fit to eat (indeed better) after a year's storage.

Now in France, and probably Lumpkin's bit of Belgium too, the powers-that-be simply fail to enforce these nonsensical laws, but they are laws nonetheless, and you can't sack our home-grown adipose feline morons for enforcing them, and it's very difficult to stop them marginally making the bloody laws worse after translation.

Whether Lumpkin, or President Obama, likes it or not, England is going to leave the EU unless there are major changes, and those major changes don't benefit the vastly overpaid army of Brussels bureaucrats, so I don't think they'll happen.

Brussels is also a major dumping ground for all major UK political parties for those of their leading lights who have been caught with their hands in the till. The most notable ones are the totally unelectable Kinnocks from the Labour Party, who have received over £15 million between them from Brussels, but there are other examples in every other party,


:salut:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:25 am 
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I have to say I have get to meet anyone who actually likes Nigel Farage, but for a long while he was the only available politician saying we should get out of the Brussels megabureacracy, and I'll vote for him on that one subject. Mind you, everyone who has met Gordon Brown says he's a right bastard, and the Millibands both appear to be aliens from the planet Zog. Nick Clegg is quite amazingly nasty in person, but there may be legal action pending against him, and I'd better say nothing about his nastier habits. I suspect Cameron is just a typical arrogant Etonian, and would get right up my nose, but his public pronouncements have, I admit, been better than I expected: perhaps the best of a bad lot, and that's not even faint praise to damn him with.

Small producers certainly are being put out, or kept out, of business by Brussels bureaucracy here, and in quite large numbers. Of course Tesco and other supermarkets encourage the government and DEFRA to impose the rules as strictly as possible, because they cost little proportionately to them, whereas they're crippling for a small producer, and Tesco has less competition.

We normally have just five hybrid laying hens: they produce 35 eggs a week between them, which supplies us and about 5 or 6 other local households, but:
i) We can't re-use clean egg boxes and officially have to buy new ones every time
ii) We can't call them "free range" eggs despite the fact that they are
iii) We can't wash or clean any dirty eggs, or sell them
iv) We can't call them "large" or "small" eggs, even when they are
v) We can't refrigerate any eggs (that MIGHT just be reasonable, but I have my doubts).
vi) We can't use any disinfectants or cleaning products on the hen houses
vii) We aren't allowed to feed the hens any kitchen scraps (vegetable ones I mean)
What complete and utter bollocks, and I'm afraid all Brussels legislation, which I'm sure gets ignored by most EU countries, but if it was ignored here, you can bet your boots that some little snivelling rat employed either by the council or Tesco would report the non compliance, and Tesco would make a fuss and England would yet again be fined for something ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:54 am 
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RGSP wrote:
I have to say I have get to meet anyone who actually likes Nigel Farage, but for a long while he was the only available politician saying we should get out of the Brussels megabureacracy, and I'll vote for him on that one subject. Mind you, everyone who has met Gordon Brown says he's a right bastard, and the Millibands both appear to be aliens from the planet Zog. Nick Clegg is quite amazingly nasty in person, but there may be legal action pending against him, and I'd better say nothing about his nastier habits. I suspect Cameron is just a typical arrogant Etonian, and would get right up my nose, but his public pronouncements have, I admit, been better than I expected: perhaps the best of a bad lot, and that's not even faint praise to damn him with.

Small producers certainly are being put out, or kept out, of business by Brussels bureaucracy here, and in quite large numbers. Of course Tesco and other supermarkets encourage the government and DEFRA to impose the rules as strictly as possible, because they cost little proportionately to them, whereas they're crippling for a small producer, and Tesco has less competition.

We normally have just five hybrid laying hens: they produce 35 eggs a week between them, which supplies us and about 5 or 6 other local households, but:
i) We can't re-use clean egg boxes and officially have to buy new ones every time
ii) We can't call them "free range" eggs despite the fact that they are
iii) We can't wash or clean any dirty eggs, or sell them
iv) We can't call them "large" or "small" eggs, even when they are
v) We can't refrigerate any eggs (that MIGHT just be reasonable, but I have my doubts).
vi) We can't use any disinfectants or cleaning products on the hen houses
vii) We aren't allowed to feed the hens any kitchen scraps (vegetable ones I mean)
What complete and utter bollocks, and I'm afraid all Brussels legislation, which I'm sure gets ignored by most EU countries, but if it was ignored here, you can bet your boots that some little snivelling rat employed either by the council or Tesco would report the non compliance, and Tesco would make a fuss and England would yet again be fined for something ridiculous.


In 2010, the first talks in the EU to abolish sell by dates were held. They disappeared off most food items here unless there is a proven health risk from eating possibly spoiled food over 2 years ago. The supermarkets are the ones fighting to preserve sell by dates in the UK because they are the ones who benefit.

I'm afraid those regulations relating to eggs are pure DEFRA and not EU. It is not implemented here or even heard of. And by the way, never refrigerate eggs, it reduces their shelf life by 1/3.

The EU is like health and safety in the UK it is a giant bogeyman which can be used as a universal scapegoat by people to justify anything, most of all by the petty jobsworths and bleeding heart liberals with no imagination that you have allowed to take control of your lives everywhere from local government to the very top.

Daily Mail: 85% of UK legislation comes from EU.
House of Commons: 8%

I wonder which is correct.

Daily Mail: No jobs will be lost as a result of leaving the EU
Goldman Sachs: “In all likelihood we would transfer a substantial part of our European business from London to a eurozone location – the most obvious contenders being Paris and Frankfurt.”
Citibank: “Jobs and the growth of Britain’s economy depend on maintaining and increasing exports to the EU, particularly as the European economy begins to recover. This will be a much more difficult task if businesses have to contend with a Britain that has decided to exit the EU. Existing trade arrangements will be at risk and Britain will have no influence in making the rules in the future.” And also “It is not that international companies will stop investing in Britain, but their investment just will not be at the scale we have become accustomed to.”
Nissan: “we would need to reconsider our strategy and our investments for the future.”
Siemens: “for the business community, being at the heart of the EU is how to make it work for everyone. Siemens values Britain’s membership of the EU single market, the world’s largest trading bloc, worth £10 trillion, with 500 million consumers. We are making the message clear that Britain is better off in the EU.” “If we were not within the EU, Siemens would make it quite difficult for me to continue to invest in those factories.”

I could go on all day posting warnings from multinational companies who will considerably reduce their investment in the UK if you choose to leave. I can verfy my sources too unlike the Daily Mail who rely on scaremongering and fiction.

Reform is the answer not walking out.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:24 am 
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dust n diesel wrote:
I have a good friend whom is now one of the largest strawberry growers in Scotland and possibly the UK.

To conform to what supermarkets want there are now no traditional varieties grown (jubilee etc) and none grown outside au naturalle.

The b and c class berried used to go for jam and processing but they have driven the price so low that jam makers are now buying a class berries and he has to dump tons and tons of perfectly good and usually better tasting odd shapes.

Its a nonsense.

The people who insist on that or were the cause of it want monkey ffuking

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:28 pm 
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The chicken regulations are NOT pure DEFRA, most of them have nothing to do with DEFRA and come under the remit of Trading Standards, and are, I would agree stricter interpretations of Brussels legislation than would be applied in Belgium and France, though from the (admitted anecdotal) grumbles I hear from residents there, not Denmark, Sweden or Germany. I have several friends who commute between Cambridge and Greece, who find our inclination to actually obey laws and not do everything via bribes and lying to Brussels quite laughable.

Not feeding kitchen scraps is pure Brussels, and both the Chief Veterinary Officer here, and DEFRA, have been trying to get it rescinded for some years. It was a blanket ban brought in by DEFRA and Brussels in the wake of BSE, and it only applies to Britain I believe. It will be rescinded sooner or later, but getting that to happen is distracting attention from other things just as important. The same applies to splitting lamb carcases once they reach a year old: the authorities here have been saying it was (with hindsight) an unnecessary thing to do, and pushing Brussels for abolition for a couple of years now, with no result yet. I'm pretty sure it only ever applied to the British Isles, though I may be wrong on that.

Refrigerating eggs or not is more complicated than Lumpkin suggests, and has regularly been discussed in the veterinary press for years. The point is that suddenly refrigerating an egg with bacteriological contamination (e.g. salmonellae) on its surface, can pull it inside through the shell, where it does no harm if the egg continues to be refrigerated, and the egg will keep safe for weeks or months, substantially longer in fact than if uncooled, at summer temperatures at least. However, if that previously refrigerated egg is then kept at room temperature (or higher) then the bacteria inside will multiply dangerously, and that of course will happen if an egg kept by Tescos in the fridge is then taken home and left warm. The point is that, as a small-scale egg producer I'm not allowed strictly to even refrigerate eggs for my own consumption which would not come out again until use. By the way, eggs in ships are kept in the "potato room" for longest life if the ship has one, and that's kept at about 10C rather than the 6C of a domestic fridge, They'd go off pretty quickly if kept at the 35C or higher common in many freighters working in the tropics. Even here, if you leave eggs outside at the moment, not bothering about keeping them cool, they hatch, or so I conclude from the cheeping noises coming from our stable.

Not washing eggs is an interpretation of fairly recent primary Brussels legislation. Washing eggs by mechanical means in intensive egg units is decidedly dubious: power brushes destroy the water-resistance of the shell, as does pressure washing. However, wiping eggs gently with a clean cloth soaked in hypochlorite solution, which is possible on a small scale, does a lot more good than harm, and there have been several studies showing that.

Don't get me onto the subject of stupid slaughterhouse regulations as introduced by Brussels, and which have killed off (pun intentional) almost all small abattoirs here. Those regulations have certainly NOT been invented here, though as always I have no doubt they are completely ignored in Greece, because my Greek friends tell me what actually happens there (whereas I regularly go to an abattoir, meet the staff, and know what happens and why, in this country).

I know that sell-by dates are in process of being abolished by Brussels, but that doesn't alter the fact that they have been a Brussels imposed regulation for 40 years, or that the full abolition process is not yet complete. In theory countries abolishing sell-by dates before the Brussels process is complete are liable for prosecution, so they remain in place for a few months yet in law abiding countries.

Fishing regulations and throwing catches back was again pure Brussels, and it's jolly good that the rule is being rescinded: it doesn't reduce the many tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of tons of good fish wasted so far though. By the way, Hugh Kills-and-eats-it-all greatly overstates his role in getting Brussels to rescind the regulations: Owen Patterson as a shadow minister had a great deal more to do with it, and it was he that persuaded fisheries ministers of other parties in the UK + several other countries to push for abolition of the rule.

I haven't read a copy of "The Daily Mail" for many years, although I know people who do read it and all regard it as an entertainment rather than a source of fact. No doubt that some do believe it, but unfortunately a great many more people take "The Guardian" seriously, when its respect for scientific truth is as low or lower than The Mail, and it's consistently very anti-farmer as well. The Mail is just anti-farmer when it feels like it.

Morgan Stanley are of course primarily American banking conglomerate, and it's very handy for them to have us as an easy way into the EU, but that will continue whether or not we leave the EU because we will continue to observe the more sensible and important EU rules and have a great deal of contact with the EU. Their corporate record on predicting national economic trends is very poor as well.

The UK is a huge net importer of goods and some services from Europe: leaving the EU will make no difference to their desire or need to sell to us, and the threat of fully legal reciprocal action will prevent trade barriers being erected against us selling to the EU.

I have no idea what proportion of new UK laws originate in Brussels, but I think there are certainly tens of new Brussels rules to be incorporated into our law on average every week, whether we like it or not at the moment, and I dare say many of them would continue to be introduced even if we are outside of the EU like Norway or Switzerland, but NOT the really silly ones, and it's no use claiming that these don't exist, even if the total number per year is probably small.

If the Brussels bureaucracy is all small, cuddly and benign, what are all the huge numbers of people on high salaries doing there? Nobody can claim they don't exist, and many of us know very second rate individuals working there, who have been sacked for poor performance here, but get paid huge amounts for doing (presumably) an equally rubbish job there.

It's also no good playing at being Tony Bliar and claiming that there is no intention of the EU becoming more Federal: prominent high-ups in the EU have been continually and loudly pushing for it, as well as claiming that it will happen even if the UK does object to it. Trade integration is a different matter, but that's going to continue happening whether or not the EU goes into terminal overdrivel and disappears up its own arse hole.

I voted for a Common Market with easy access between European countries, and no overt trade barriers: I would vote for that again. I did NOT vote for a huge unelected bureaucracy in Brussels, or indeed a European Parliament, or integration with Europe, and the existence of this huge and unnecessary structure distracts attention from the poor standards of our own Quangos and Civil Service units (and MPs), which are just as bad if not worse, but hide behind Brussels rather successfully. Of course 3rd rate bureaucrats in other countries do the same thing, and that is partly why they aren't happy with Brussels either, and if we can get major reform and stay in the EU, excellent, but I think it will take England leaving, or perhaps getting very close to leaving, to spur other countries into painful action.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:03 pm 
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When it comes down to it, I really don't care whether England leaves the EU or not and neither do the other of the member states in Europe. England is regarded in much the same way as a senile elderly and incontinent relative. Of little practical use, nobody takes any notice of it but at the same time nobody has the heart to hold a damp pillow over it's face until it stops kicking. Firstly don't overestimate the impact that England's departure will have on the rest of the Europe, there won't be crying in the streets and weeping and wailing. In fact, most people will not even notice. To say that there will be no economic impact on UK leaving and that trade will continue on the same terms as before is also laughable. The whole of Europe has a population of about 506 million, the UK about 70 million. Europe doesn't need the UK as a trading partner and will be under no legal obligation to continue to do so after their departure. UK protests and blocking European imports will make Europe crumble and come begging? No, it would be the equivalent of cutting off your nose to spite your face. UK mounts a legal challenge and months later it's resolved one way or another, in the mean time things in England get quite difficult and the US fails to honour their half of the "Special Relationship". It shouldn't be overlooked also that pretty well all the multinational companies who invest in the UK have stated that they will withdraw or review their investment plans certainly in the short to medium term. The city of London won't tide UK over either since between 60 and 70% of all financial transactions are in Euros and there is no reason on earth why these will stay in London following the departure. Frankfurt and Bonn are itching to get their hands on them.

Leaving the EU will not open the doors to a land of milk and honey as some people seem to suggest, it will hereald the beginning of some very difficult times for the UK. It is not the global super power it thinks it is, India and China have both made it clear that the UK is not seen as really relevant on the world stage any more, the Russian Federation thinks of the UK as a joke and Uncle Sam does too. The only future UK really has is to get more involved in Europe, and work with the other member states to demolish the old corrupt and morally destitute structures re-work it from the ground up in to what Europe should have been in the first place. The other members are just as sick of the stupidity, waste, corruption and bureaucracy as UK is. The whole edifice needs to be fundamentally reformed and that reform will come, but from the outside the UK will not be in any position to participate in the design of the new or reap the benefits when they come.

So really there are two choices. The UK needs to get over itself as a nation and stop whining from the sidelines about how unfair it is, realise that it is not deserving of special treatment it seems to expect just because it's the UK and had an empire 70 years ago and get stuck in to make things change. Failing that it can back out and die quietly in squallor and poverty. When the time comes for the referendum, the choice is yours.

The UK also needs to do something about it's own jobsworths who spout "can't do that, it's against European law". 9 times out of ten it isn't even true. It is like some local government official banning conkers in the play ground because of "health and safety".

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