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 Post subject: The start ?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:57 pm 
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It would appear that the feathers of the dairies and supermarkets are starting to get a bit of wind under them.
They are not ruffled yet, but are no longer solid and waterproof.

Now, it would seem that publicity, PR and media attention via social networking is starting this reaction, not marches and militant threats.
So, what now ? Congratulate each other for a job well done :roll: , start patting each other on the back ?
No - step it up, don't let the ball roll back onto you. Keep the pressure up and get what you actually want.
If you believe their lies and spin and come off the gas now, in 6 months time you'll be worse off than you are now.

Go get 'em. :thumright:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:37 pm 
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I fear its far from the start; already the dairy posts on here are dropping down and the FWI website has had nothing about the milk issue today, the weather is turning and the dairies have won, Asda announce a price increase and am "sorry" for the impact the cuts their supplier (Arla) has to make, I am sure the 2.72% of the producers affected by the Asda increase are over the moon and feel they have taken on and beaten the giants - for Asda they have escaped the issue without losing a penny just before (and I quote) being "hauled up in front of ministers" - reminds me of that book, whats its name again, oh yes.... Animal Farm!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:39 pm 
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runny egg wrote:
I fear its far from the start; already the dairy posts on here are dropping down and the FWI website has had nothing about the milk issue today, the weather is turning and the dairies have won, Asda announce a price increase and am "sorry" for the impact the cuts their supplier (Arla) has to make, I am sure the 2.72% of the producers affected by the Asda increase are over the moon and feel they have taken on and beaten the giants - for Asda they have escaped the issue without losing a penny just before (and I quote) being "hauled up in front of ministers" - reminds me of that book, whats its name again, oh yes.... Animal Farm!

Twitter is where it's at! 8)


Btw. Excellent video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vJ6MUXQ ... ure=colike


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:43 am 
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Marches, polls and industry meetings will do nothing.
I've said it countless times already - social media and public awareness leading to public support will change the price, not out of date marching and protesting.
The public love a media campaign where they can 'belong' to a group and feel as if they are making a difference.
They hate being inconvinienced in their busy lives however by protests and angry farmers.
Agression turns the public off, friendliness and the plight of the underdog gets them onside.

If dairy farmers are unable to realise this then sit back and wait for the inevitable.
If change comes (and it will) then it will have sod all to do with the NFU, the government or a bunch of barbour clad, grumpy farmers demanding new Range Rovers (because thats what the public think)

More to the point, if change comes, I can probably name the minority of the people who bring it about. :wink:

Either get busy on social media trying to get public opinion to change the price from the supermarkets or get busy applying for a job with them stacking shelves.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:00 am 
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For example ....

Asda is preening itself because it's just announced it's giving 2ppl extra for it's milk, the public think that's great, BUT ...

Image




Meanwhile Sainsburrys think think they're god-like at the moment, BUT ...

Image

They can't stop you saying it & the public can see it too.
... although I do have a comment "awaiting moderation" on the AsdaBlog! :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:10 am 
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I cant agree more that marches, protests etc are old hat and achieve nothing of substance and can actually do damage as follows. You ask the shopper to pay an extra 2p for its milk so the farmer can have some more, yes says the shopper, thereafter the milk and dairy products keep going up in price and the shopper thinks this extra cash is all going to the farmer, or maybe it doesnt go up - how many times do we keep going back to the shopper with our hands out saying "please sir, can I have some more"!

Twitter, Facebook etc is without doubt the way to push this campaign as demonstrated with Mags tweets (they can post but they cant hide). I set up www.milkorbust.com and simply asked "would you cut production (by any amount) if you thought it would stop the price cuts in August" - just think about that for a moment, a farmer losing £4k off his milk cheque every month with a 2p price cut will lose £3k off his cheque (not lost profit) if he cuts/witholds/dumps 25% of his milk for a week but this "investment" may save him £4k/month for a lot of months. A farmer about to lose £2k would stump up £1500 by doing the same.

So if you thought that action would halt the price cut would you do it - YES or NO? Well consider this, 90% of the responses on www.milkorbust.com have said they would, so if I tweet Asds, Arla, Wiseman etc etc etc telling them 90% of the producers are cutting back unless the proposed price cuts are abolished do you think they would listen? Combine that with letting the public know dairy farmers are cutting back as they are losing money on every litre produced then maybe we have a chance of making progress.

But there is a problem - over 1000 people have looked at www.milkorbust.com and a grand total of 6 yes SIX answered the question! This is the reason the buyers know they can do what they like - as an industry we have a minority who can and will and a majority who wont!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Sorry Squire and others: I don't do Facebook or Twitter, and I'm not going to. However, I think I have had some moderate success in changing a useful number of the people's opinions. There is (or at least was) a rather holier than thou cafe in a church lobby, near to where I work sometimes.
It used to be plastered with "fair trade" banners etc., so I went in and asked them where their milk came from, and when they said "Tesco" I asked them to take down their "fair trade" stuff or be branded hypocrites. They didn't, so a week later I printed off some sticky labels saying something like "This cafe buys milk from farmers who are paid less than the price of production: so much for fair trade" and put one on every fair trade notice accessible (about a dozen). A week later they had replaced all the fair trade notices with new ones (without my comment), so I put another lot on. This time they took the fair trade notices down, and didn't replace them, so I think the message got through.

The Fair Trade organisation ought to be working for British farmers as well as those in 3rd world countries, and I suggest that until they do so, their two-faced attitude should be loudly criticised.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:50 pm 
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RGSP wrote:
Sorry Squire and others: I don't do Facebook or Twitter, and I'm not going to. However, I think I have had some moderate success in changing a useful number of the people's opinions. There is (or at least was) a rather holier than thou cafe in a church lobby, near to where I work sometimes.
It used to be plastered with "fair trade" banners etc., so I went in and asked them where their milk came from, and when they said "Tesco" I asked them to take down their "fair trade" stuff or be branded hypocrites. They didn't, so a week later I printed off some sticky labels saying something like "This cafe buys milk from farmers who are paid less than the price of production: so much for fair trade" and put one on every fair trade notice accessible (about a dozen). A week later they had replaced all the fair trade notices with new ones (without my comment), so I put another lot on. This time they took the fair trade notices down, and didn't replace them, so I think the message got through.

The Fair Trade organisation ought to be working for British farmers as well as those in 3rd world countries, and I suggest that until they do so, their two-faced attitude should be loudly criticised.


That's brilliant !! 8) :lol:

Runny Egg, what your campaign has highlighted is that dairy farmers are their own worst, idle enemy.
However, just because your industry is full of lazy, moaning bastards who cannot even be bothered to look after their own interests, don't be put off.
Look after your own interests and those of the people such as The Squire etc who will back you and work with you. The fact that the majority of lazy fuckers will benefit is neither here nor there - they will fall by the wayside by their own means in time.
Keep tweeting to the supermarkets and let the public know that their "Wonderful, generous price" is bollox because it doesn't even get you breaking even.
Let the public know that the supermarkets are taking the farmers AND THEIR CUSTOMERS (very important) for muppets.
Get the public on side. Forget telling other farmers and the NFU about your plight - They don't give a shit becuase if they did, you wouldn't be in this mess.
Go along the "We have families too" route - get Joe Public to connect with you and show that there are many similarities with farming families and ordinary household families.
Once you make that connection, you are no longer a small bunch of moaning farmers - you are a group, a massive nationwide group of concerned customers of the supermarkets that number in their millions and they will shit themselves when they know that even a small percentage taking their business next door could cost them millions of pounds.
As farmers you are fuck all - as a group of customers (farmers, nurses, bus drivers, teachers, poliemen, IT workers etc) you are the boss of the supermarkets. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:11 pm 
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runny egg wrote:
I cant agree more that marches, protests etc are old hat and achieve nothing of substance and can actually do damage as follows. You ask the shopper to pay an extra 2p for its milk so the farmer can have some more, yes says the shopper, thereafter the milk and dairy products keep going up in price and the shopper thinks this extra cash is all going to the farmer, or maybe it doesnt go up - how many times do we keep going back to the shopper with our hands out saying "please sir, can I have some more"!

No-one is asking the shopper to pay any more - just asking for the supermarkets to pass on a fair share of the profit that they're taking, after buying it for below cost of production prices.

Image

There's no guarantee if the price goes up in the shops, that any is passed down to the farmer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Those are "gross margins" not profits, correct ? Could be processors and retailers are losing money on milk, can't tell that from your chart.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:25 pm 
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RGSP wrote:
Sorry Squire and others: I don't do Facebook or Twitter, and I'm not going to. However, I think I have had some moderate success in changing a useful number of the people's opinions. There is (or at least was) a rather holier than thou cafe in a church lobby, near to where I work sometimes.
It used to be plastered with "fair trade" banners etc., so I went in and asked them where their milk came from, and when they said "Tesco" I asked them to take down their "fair trade" stuff or be branded hypocrites. They didn't, so a week later I printed off some sticky labels saying something like "This cafe buys milk from farmers who are paid less than the price of production: so much for fair trade" and put one on every fair trade notice accessible (about a dozen). A week later they had replaced all the fair trade notices with new ones (without my comment), so I put another lot on. This time they took the fair trade notices down, and didn't replace them, so I think the message got through.

The Fair Trade organisation ought to be working for British farmers as well as those in 3rd world countries, and I suggest that until they do so, their two-faced attitude should be loudly criticised.


I have never bought Fair Trade stuff for this reason. Why are they any more entitled to make a living than I?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Tesco this evening:
Cravendale 4 pints £1.88 (last week £1.50)
Tesco Semi skimmed 4 pints £1.49 or 3 for £3.00 :o

Now tell me they don't have a massive amount of sway in what price they could give the farmer.

C*nts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:32 pm 
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The Pretender wrote:

I have never bought Fair Trade stuff for this reason. Why are they any more entitled to make a living than I?


I may be misunderstanding things here but isn't "fair trade" the idea that third worlders shouldn't be taken advantage of in terms of prices received ? Wouldn't that help you in that companies can't pay substantially less to the unsuspecting? I don't pay much attention to things such as this but I think that the quicker that "cheap labor" gets raised to something closer to a western level, the better for all of us.

I still believe somebody with a good job and a family isn't going to be blowing themselves up in a market. Maybe that's the latent naive liberal in me coming out.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:50 pm 
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I have an aquaintance who is the area milk rep for wiseman producer group (non tesco contract farms) and he had a call from someone in his area the other day who has had to pay off his farm worker, and make his son go and look for a job outwith their enterprise at home, which now means that even on their moderately modern unit, him and his wife in their mid 50's will be going back to working 90ish hours a week 52 weeks a year to cover all the enterprises they have, the dairy being the main one.

That is not really on, no ones entitled to a living, you have to earn it, but surely this is going a bit far?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:36 pm 
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dust n diesel wrote:
I have an aquaintance who is the area milk rep for wiseman producer group (non tesco contract farms) and he had a call from someone in his area the other day who has had to pay off his farm worker, and make his son go and look for a job outwith their enterprise at home, which now means that even on their moderately modern unit, him and his wife in their mid 50's will be going back to working 90ish hours a week 52 weeks a year to cover all the enterprises they have, the dairy being the main one.

That is not really on, no ones entitled to a living, you have to earn it, but surely this is going a bit far?


reality hasnt sunk in yet for many and those who act quicker may not be the worst off,wait untill winter feed bills start ,soya has risen £160 per ton this year and currently £430 + per ton.
there will have to be a lot of hard counting in many businesses and not just farming ,meat proccessers are having a real hard time of it also and the operating losses by some are huge .If they dont pay they get no stock but they cant get any more from the supermarkets . Food has been so cheap for so long the customer is going to have a hard time learning they have to pay more but thats the way it will have to be.


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